I don’t often strike up conversations on public transport. I’m polite when spoken to, but I usually just keep myself to myself.
So one afternoon when a lady spoke across the aisle to me on a tram into the city, I responded genially – until the conversation took a downward spiral into jaw-dropping territory, which I was powerless to overcome.
It started off innocently enough, I guess.
“Nice to see a little one out with her mum,” says the lady as she enters the tram and sits down.
I smile politely and murmur something non-committal.
“Saw a man with three kids hanging off him yesterday,” she continues. “Why would you do that? That’s not right, making the father look after the kids. What a witch.”
“Oh,” I say, taken aback. The conversation is already taking a turn I’m not expecting and she’s been there eight seconds. I notice people are beginning to pay attention to us – she’s not exactly quiet.
“She wanted to have them, she should stay with them. Simple,” followed up with a vehement head-nod.
I’m just smiling stupidly at her, at my kid, out the window, anywhere, really. I don’t know what to do or say. I thought she was done… but I was wrong.
“I know it’s probably old-fashioned, but he should be out doing his car, playing his video games, you know? The mother should be the one feeding the children and looking after them, taking them places. Not him. He should do his man things.”
“Oh… ah yes, that is old-fashioned,” I say, almost apoplectic at this point. There are about 45 things I want to say all screaming around in my head, tripping over each other and getting confused. I can’t leave this unchallenged, but I also don’t want to provoke her. This was all I could muster.
ALL OF THE STEREOTYPES, LADY, YOU’RE KILLING ME.
“I remember when I was a baby, I craved my mother holding me. I remember that,” comes more evidence from the prosecution.
Desperate to be contrary, but not in an upsetting way, I proffer: “Oh I was a daddy’s girl, myself”. More placating smiling, more desperately trying to arrange my face into a non-threatening but disagreeing expression. People are really listening to us now. The modern parenting movement is resting on my shoulders, I WON’T LET YOU DOWN.
She goes quiet for a bit, and I wonder if she’s abandoned her public sermon about the correct roles of mothers and fathers as regards travelling children and video games.
Then she turns to my four-year-old and says: “You’re beautiful. You’re going to be a princess (NOOOO! You did not go there. What if she wants to be a goddamn engineer? A mechanic? Quit it with the princess bullshit, help this conversation is breaking my brain), you go to school and go to university. Make mummy proud”.
I smile stupidly at my daughter because I simply don’t know what else to do with my face.
The lady turns her attention back to me.
“You should be a model. You have that look about you. Kick Megan gale out of the picture!” she says as we arrive at her stop and she exits the tram.
Ahh finally, something we can agree on 😉
Jen @ Love Wednesday says
You totally should be a model 😀 She probably had a life where she DID EVERYTHING for her kids and was never away from them and is jealous of every woman that can have a career or a day to do her thing because a lot of Dads are awesome these days 🙂
Veggie Mama says
It’s funny because she never mentioned her own kids, and I got the feeling she didn’t have any. She also didn’t seem that much older… I was so confused and my poor baby brain wasn’t giving me anything useful to say haha
Reannon @shewhorambles says
I just read your comment below- she wasn’t even old? Because I was picturing some old, crotchety woman with a woollen hat, big coat & one if those trolley bags!
And as you know I’m new to this whole daughter thing but so far nothing irks me more than the whole princess thing. It bothered me before she was even born! Why are girls automatically princesses, the ones with no power? Why aren’t they queens, ready to rule a whole fucking empire?! It shits me to tears! By the looks of it my daughter will do something with dirt or trucks or bugs, maybe even be some kind of UFC fighter. So far there’s nothing dainty or overly ” girly” about her & we wouldn’t have her any other way! That woman on the bus would be horrified with her lol
Veggie Mama says
yeah I wouldn’t have put her out of her 40s, so I was pretty taken aback. Not like a granny who was all “in my day…” it was weird. I felt like anything I would say wouldn’t really change her mind so I just did that dumb smile endlessly.
I don’t mind if kids want to play-act or they genuinely get excited about princesses and whatnot, but I do take issue when it’s just expected that it’s what they’ll like and there’s something wrong if they’re not interested. I go by what my kids want – if its a princess phase, I’m all about it. But don’t tell them they need to grow up and be a princess… the chances of that are about zero per cent (but that bloody Prince George, I’d palm one of my kids off to him at the right age. Christ he’s cute!).
Reannon @shewhorambles says
I like that approach, being led by your kids. It’s how I’ve always been with the boys. The toddler loves kitchen stuff so that’s what he got for his birthday this year. The lady is still a bit little to really show any real interest in anything, except the Wiggles, she loves those guys, so I’ve been a bit lax in introducing typical girl toys. I just hate the assumption that because she’s a girl she automatically loves all things pink & sparkly & princess-y. If that’s what SHE loves then that’s AOK but I’m ok that she likes trucks too.
From my very limited time with a daughter it seems they get pigeon holed a lot quicker than boys do.
Veggie Mama says
Well, I DO force art and books – if there’s a birthday or whatever, that’s usually the kind of gift I’d include. But as for other interests, I go by what they are currently keen on. I’m happy to facilitate! Neither of them have much interest in the typical “girly” stuff though I’m not opposed to getting it if they want it, and they do have quite a few things. But when they ask for Ninja Turtles, they get those too. having said that, most people still think poor smalls is a boy! Although that hair is finally moving now, after three years, haha
Reannon @shewhorambles says
Dude, I started kindy with short hair, like it was just below my GIANT pixie ears! It took a lifetime to grow & still does which is why I usually regret chopping my hair off about two weeks after I do it.
And Smalls does not look like a boy. People are weird. And blind.
Veggie Mama says
I can’t do short hair, it just doesn’t suit and it’s a pain in the ass to manage. You would have been a cute little pixie! Did you see that kid recently who got ear surgery?
Heather Leckie says
UGH! How excruciating this must have been for you. I have been feeling angry and annoyed on your behalf all morning. No wonder people constantly wear headphones on public transport in order to avoid this kind of irritating interaction (not that you could have done that with a small person accompanying you).
Veggie Mama says
I hate public conversations at the best of times but when you’re really floundering with something to say to someone who has such a diametrically opposed world view to you… it was excruciating! I also knew everyone was listening to me and I didn’t want to let them down haha
JohannaGGG says
what a horrible situation! I think the most fun thing to say to her would have been that you totally agree and that is why you had the sex change! But honestly it is really sad that she does not understand how much is loaded onto mothers’ shoulders and how great it is when fathers can be involved in their kids’ lives. She sounds like a wanna be princess herself!
Veggie Mama says
hahahaha I wish I’d thought of that! I know people have different views of the world, but I was still surprised to hear something so old-fashioned. We’ve moved on, lady!
Ellen Jackson says
If I’d be brave enough, which I probably wouldn’t have been because I too dislike a public conversation (damn you INTP brain) I might have said, ‘Maybe their mother is dead.’ Let her come back from that! 😉
Veggie Mama says
Yeah I was astounded at how fuzzy my brain was and I couldn’t think of anything interesting to say. Although this one would have been good!
Ellen Jackson says
Happens to me all the time. Put me in front of a training group or in a consulting setting and I can answer every question straight up. Put my in public or in a social setting and I’m hopeless. Ah well.
Veggie Mama says
I used to be able to think on my feet. Then I didn’t sleep for three years and I can’t remember anything ever.
Aly Petulla says
*nods head*
Veggie Mama says
haha solidarity, sister x
LouisaG says
That went through my mind, my uncle raised his three kids so beautifully after my Aunty died. The most beautiful, loving and attentive father.
GourmetGirlfriend says
sounds so clearly to me that she has mother abandonment issues that are still with her.
The “I craved my mother holding me” comment gives it away.
I applaud your calm and your ability to affirm that yes, she had old-fashioned views.
I kind of look on this with compassion I guess- that clearly behind her anger lies a long story that maybe none of us understand.
it makes me feel sad 🙁
It is soooo difficult to have those situations with strangers in an encounter you are unprepared for- you obviously handled it gracefully.
Veggie Mama says
I most definitely didn’t understand. But it’s good to interact with people that have super-different world views, I guess. Horizon-broadening and all that.
GourmetGirlfriend says
it’s not easy to understand- it totally conflicts with all of what you (and I) believe.
But- i just think it sounds as if she has pretty strong mental health issues & so it makes the way you handled it with such grace even more lovely.
You are a goodun Veg, you really are.
xx
Veggie Mama says
I have good role models, Miz Girlfriend. Ladies who mother excellently and are full of compassion and love 😉
GourmetGirlfriend says
aw Veg. xxxxx
We need to eat cake soon. i miss you.
Veggie Mama says
Yes please. I’m desperate to see your pottery in the flesh!
Brigette-Renee Spicer says
So far this week my daughter has had her daddy take her to the doctor, dentist, birthday party shopping, and to monster trucks.
I could say all the usual stuff of I was at work, the hospital was busy, they needed more nurses (all true, school holidays are MANIC), but a large part is I just didn’t want to do those things. The dentist sucks, and if a husband doesn’t want to do certain things I don’t understand why some think that’s fine and we should let it go, there’s shit I hate too.
Veggie Mama says
I remember hearing once a dad saying “nuh, I am not doing nappies”. Imagine if a mum just straight up refused to do a fundamental part of childcare? “fuck feeding ’em, I’m not doing that”. like it’s a choice? it’s not a choice, dickhead. You can’t opt out of basic obligations to your infant.
Also I’m not so fond of the park… dad takes care of that trip
LouisaG says
I totally need to say I’m not doing nit treatment and mofo combing. #gah why did I not think of that?
Kelley @ magnetoboldtoo says
I agree with GourmetGirlfriend, woman clearly had issues in her own childhood. I used to have similar ‘conversations’ with my MIL which was hard. She had very strong views about ‘Australians’ and women and it was very hard to remain civil but also let her know that she was OMG SO VERY GODDAMN WRONG.
And you should totes be a model. Get a shoe contract and send me all of the samples, size nine.
Veggie Mama says
Well of course, because we are the same size. I also sometimes forget that because I live in 2015 that not everyone else does. But jeez… I get super fired up about a woman’s “place” and if a man’s is on his video games instead of wiping bums then I’m getting testy.
Kelley @ magnetoboldtoo says
I totally wouldn’t have blamed you if you accidentally on purpose pushed her out of the bus though. You know, because you were on your period.
Veggie Mama says
but I’m not physically strong enough becuz lady
bigwords says
what a hoe bag x
Veggie Mama says
haha!
The Plumbette says
Was she an older lady? Because I have similar conversations with my grandparents. It’s old fashioned thinking and it’s hard to change their mind or get them to understand times have changed. It could also be past hurts errupting from her own upbringing. I think in these situations smiling and nodding are a nice way to acknowledge her. I would have done the same. I’m no people pleaser but I choose my battles. Sharing this conversation on your blog is the defence needed to challenge old thinking. Don’t feel guilty that you wished you said more. Xx
Veggie Mama says
Nah, she wasn’t much older than me. A different culture, perhaps. I didn’t think too much about the back story, I was too busy dealing with what my mouth was going to do!
Cath @mybeardedpigeon says
I think we need to be careful about diagnosing psychological issues from a 2 minute conversation.
Veggie Mama says
Precisely why I didn’t!
Cath @mybeardedpigeon says
yes, I noticed you didn’t. xx
Veggie Mama says
It can be very damaging and in the end, pretty pointless I think. I mean, it’s good to realise there are extenuating circumstances, but making assumptions never gets anyone anywhere 🙂
Cath @mybeardedpigeon says
yep! xxx
Maxabella says
Kudos for keeping your cool. x
Vanessa says
Far Out Dot Com. You did well in excruciating circumstances Stacey, that would have been hellish. Glad she finished on a high note though!
Veggie Mama says
haha it was so out of the blue… the whole conversation was out of the blue. Kept me thinking for a long time.
LouisaG says
Oh my goodness! Far out, I mean, I can’t even.
Veggie Mama says
I think that’s what I thought!
Peachy Keen Mumma says
I would have struggled just like you. And then thought of all the awesome things I could have retorted in hindsight. But you wouldn’t have changed her mind anyway so maybe keeping the peace is better in this situation. My neighbour lady says horrible racist things about Muslims and refugees to me. I do what I can to softly let her know I don’t agree. She loves my son and is sad and lonely. I feel sorry for her and her small mindedness. I’m hoping these “old fashioned” ways will die with that generation.
Veggie Mama says
Oh that would be heartbreaking. And as much as we want to do the right thing, it can be tough having confrontations like that. I’d not like to live with so much unfounded hate in my heart.
Shari from GoodFoodWeek says
Wow just wow… I love this mummy gig – but Dads are just as important {and hands on} these days! Oh and I don’t think a princess would get a look in if we end up getting a girl somewhere along the line {dinosaurs, dump trucks and digging in the mud is so much more fun}.
Hugzilla says
Back in the day you could punch someone in the face for objectionable opinions. (*note, am not advocating violence, just ruminating…)
Veggie Mama says
Hahahah knowing me I’d get my nose broken. Again.
Josephine says
Hi fives for keeping it low-key. No one wins in a public confrontation. And like some others have said, you can rarely guess the road the other has been walking.
Veggie Mama says
nailed it 100%!